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45flint
02-03-2013, 12:23 AM
Just installed the Lyric in my Doubleneck 6 and 12 string Carbon Fiber guitar and the results have been well beyond my expectations. The guitar has two bridges and no bridge plates. I found that the lyric allows instillation over a pretty wide area and still picks up both necks and all 18 strings perfectly in balance. That is amazing and so counter intuitive. The pressure zone characteristics do indeed hear the entire soundboard at once. Not sure you guys anticipated what this product does for this type of challenging applications. Beyond that it is the most " sounds like your guitar" pickup I have ever used. Simply amazing and a miracle for my application. Wow!! Steve

45flint
02-03-2013, 03:07 AM
I listened again to the NAMM Utube of Lloyd Baggs explaining the Lyric. He says that it is a pressure zone microphone and it averages the sound coming off the top. Thus the balance of all 18 strings of the Doubleneck no matter where they are connected, It's as if he developed this for my application. No doubt my application proves that this is just not Baggs marketing spin. I am surprised that no one else had applied this principle to the guitar. I do wonder if my braceless, plateless, carbon guitar gives the perfect platform for this: the mic 3mm off a perfectly flat and unobstructed surface?

45flint
02-04-2013, 05:19 AM
Here is a couple pictures of my Doubleneck installed Lyric. With two saddles and no bridgeplate I put it between the bridges. Worked fine over a pretty wide range of placements. My final pacement was a little lower more behind the string ends, just about centered under the access panel. You can see the flat unobstructed surface the carbon soundboard gives this application. It absolutely solved this very difficult problem of balancing all 18 strings with a simple solution. Before I was taking each bridge out separately through a stereo endplug and mixing and balancing outside the guitar with a two channel preamp. Simply an amazingly effective simple solution.

Caleb_Elling
02-04-2013, 07:54 AM
Thanks for sharing!

45flint
02-20-2013, 03:27 AM
Can the Lyric be used with a sound hole cover or maybe a semi lute type cover?

Caleb_Elling
02-20-2013, 07:55 AM
It can be used with a soundhole cover, but the Lyric doesn't hear much sound that comes through the soundhole anyways. So I don't think that it would be very effective. I've never been a fan of the acoustic dampening that soundhole covers cause either.

A good notch filter is definitely the best way to deal with Lyric feedback without killing the natural tone of your amplified sound.

rcdanek
05-04-2013, 06:36 AM
I read in the review of Acoustic Guitar (online version) that "The preamp also offers soldering pads for connecting a second source (such as a pickup), the signal of which goes unbuffered to the ring-channel of the output jack." Does this mean that, if I'm adding a Lyric to a guitar with an existing Fishman piezo pickup, that I could use this "unbuffered" capability for this by just soldering in the existing pickup leads?

Caleb_Elling
05-06-2013, 08:25 AM
The Lyric jack would need to replace in the existing one in the endblock. Then, if your Fishman under-saddle can be used passively, it can be utilized for stereo output on the jack.

tedswan
05-14-2013, 07:17 PM
Caleb, forgive my lack of technical knowledge, but if a passive pickup can be soldered in, will using a regular mono guitar cable only pass the lyric's audio or would it only pass the additional pickup, or maybe no sound at all?
I ask because I'm considering a sort of a/b system in order to choose an already existing fishman transducer if for some reason the environment I'm playing in causes too much feedback or there's just too much ambience. Guitarists like options!

rcdanek
05-15-2013, 03:59 AM
I knew my Lyric was going to arrive UPS, so I prepped my guitar ahead of time. I removed the Fishman under saddle pickup system, cleaned up the inside wood (mostly water and paper towels), and waited. When it arrived, I did the install. I had never had to work through a guitar sound hole like that. It was a bit harder than I thought but I managed. The Lyric didn't come with any clips (I thought it might), but I was able to use what was left over from the Fishman install. The Lyric fit nicely under the bridge plate. I had to install, removed, install, remove a couple times. The adhesive worked and I didn't have to use the spare adhesive pads. The volume control element, on the other hand, fell off. So, I had to use the spare adhesive. I think this happened because the underside of the sound hole was natural wood (no coating). I'm guessing the water and paper towel didn't quite get the job done. If I were to do this again, I'd prep the guitar ahead of time and add a bit of polyurethane (or tung oil) to the underside to seal the wood. Perhaps the adhesive would stick better.

If the adhesive for the volume doesn't work out (like, if it falls off again), I may try Velcro (or some other such system). The good news is that the volume control has an edge bumper that sits against the sound hole edge. But, with a Velcro approach, I could actually mount it upside down, seating it further into the body of the guitar (where that edge bumper would not get in the way). That way, should I need a hole plug (for feedback) I'd have the flexibility to be able to do this easily.

I did a before and after test using a keyboard amp in my garage. Earlier, I had played the guitar with my Fishman pickup and left the amp controls where they were. When I installed the Lyric and went back, the signal out of the guitar was much lower. I had to bump the amps volume a lot to get a equivalent sound. (Probably some kind of impedance thing.) Later, I plugged into my acoustic amp. The guitar sounded nice there and that amp didn't need as much volume adjusting. So much for keyboard amps. Tonight, I'll test it against a PA system and an open mic I'll be attending.

FWIW - the reason I installed the Lyric in the first place is that my Fishman system didn't have a volume control. I had made something I could wear on my belt that worked, but that was clumsy. I could add a volume control to the guitar, but the Fishman volume add-on was expensive and would require drilling holes. Finally, the under saddle pickup had that quacky sound that I didn't like sometimes. So, the Lyric install seemed like a good idea. So far, it was well worth it.

Caleb_Elling
05-15-2013, 08:14 AM
Caleb, forgive my lack of technical knowledge, but if a passive pickup can be soldered in, will using a regular mono guitar cable only pass the lyric's audio or would it only pass the additional pickup, or maybe no sound at all?
I ask because I'm considering a sort of a/b system in order to choose an already existing fishman transducer if for some reason the environment I'm playing in causes too much feedback or there's just too much ambience. Guitarists like options!

Using a mono cable will pass the Lyric signal only. Using a stereo Y cable would allow you to use either the Lyric channel or the Piezo channel with different channels or a stereo blending preamp.

Caleb_Elling
05-15-2013, 08:16 AM
rcdanek,
The Lyric's output is a little lower than undersaddle pickups, in general. I'm glad to hear that you are liking the sound so far though. I'm interested to hear your thoughts on how it sounds through a full PA, which is really where the Lyric does it's best work.

fearless
05-15-2013, 02:31 PM
Hey Caleb

I've read your statement that the Lyric sounds best through a full PA. I'm interested in getting a Fishman SA220 for solo church gigs. I would be buying the Fishman without trying the Lyric through it. I have only played my newer Larrivee 00 through my home studiio type system and it sounds very good with a bit of EQ. When I play at service I usually play piano now since they have many rotating guitarists and only a couple of piano players. I do occasionally use my Anthem SL equipped Northwood and it sounds good with no preamp.

So, I guess the question is: how does the Lyric sound through the Fishman?

Thanks
Kevin

Caleb_Elling
05-15-2013, 03:34 PM
Kevin,
I've only heard the SA220 once, so I can't say much from personal experience. The SA and other systems like the Bose towers do pretty well in most situations. However, they do not naturally have a very flat EQ, so setting up the system first is very important. You should be able to get a pretty good sound though.

I should say that I prefer the Bose L1, but I've had more experience with it compared to the SA.

fearless
05-16-2013, 02:32 AM
Thanks, Caleb.


Kevin,
I've only heard the SA220 once, so I can't say much from personal experience. The SA and other systems like the Bose towers do pretty well in most situations. However, they do not naturally have a very flat EQ, so setting up the system first is very important. You should be able to get a pretty good sound though.

I should say that I prefer the Bose L1, but I've had more experience with it compared to the SA.

rcdanek
05-16-2013, 04:29 AM
rcdanek,
The Lyric's output is a little lower than undersaddle pickups, in general. I'm glad to hear that you are liking the sound so far though. I'm interested to hear your thoughts on how it sounds through a full PA, which is really where the Lyric does it's best work.

I played at an open mic. The guy who runs it (Steve) was interested in my Lyric and helped me with the sound. I came in with the presence control centered, for the most part. He said that, on his Fishman PA, he felt he had to lower the midrange EQ a bit. To me, it sounded fine either way, but he's more experienced so I went with his suggestion. We didn't have a chance to fiddle with the onboard presence control so he did everything with his mixer.

Later on, I asked him if he'd play my guitar at the end of the evening so that I could hear it from out in the middle of the floor. He agreed and, once again, we fiddled with the mixer's EQ. This time, he had me boost the bass a bit and lower the midrange. The guitar sounded amazing when he played it. To be fair, most folks liked the way the guitar sounded with the under saddle Fishman, too, in previous weeks. But, for sure, he and I agreed that the new pickup sounded more like a guitar. Sweet.

He also got a kick out of the way the body sounds were amplified. He said he had to be more careful about tapping the body. That took about 10 seconds to do, though and I'm sure what I heard was intentional, restrained tapping to go along with the music.

Tonight, I'll get to another couple open mics with different PA's. This time, I may move the presence control to give the guitar a bit more treble ahead of time. I'll work with my own acoustic amp at home and then check out how the PA's handle it. My guitar isn't rosewood; it's mahogany. I had assumed that mahogany, naturally, would have had reduced bass. Steve wanted more bass and dialing that in on the mixer was easy (and I didn't have to crazy with the adjustment...just a small boost).

There were no feedback issues but we didn't really have the volume cranked. Normally, I had used a sound hole plug. I hope not to have to do this again with the Lyric installed. I'm sure that if I were to try to insert the plug, the volume control would come off. The only way I could do this would be to cut out a section of the hard rubber that would otherwise come in contact with the control.

At the end of the night, Steve suggested that I try out his LR Baggs box (possibly a Para DI). He said it was the best he'd ever used and that he'd let me borrow it for a bit. I'm looking forward to trying it out. One can never have too many toys.

Caleb_Elling
05-16-2013, 08:05 AM
Thanks for the breakdown! I'm sure that this will help other people get a good idea of what the Lyric can handle in the "real world".

Diabolik33
05-26-2013, 12:40 AM
Hi i have put a lyric in to my larrivee D03

http://youtu.be/RAzQyxowAbQ
The sound is not very good bécause off amp système (direct in soundcard and monitoring)and IPad mic.....
For you what is the best way to amp the lyric? Spécific amp for acoustic? PA ? Using venue or para di with amp or PA ?
Other way? Excuse me for my english......
http://youtu.be/RAzQyxowAbQ

Caleb_Elling
05-28-2013, 12:39 PM
In my experience, the Lyric sounds the best with a preamp like the Venue DI or Para DI, played through a full PA system. Amps and smaller speakers can limit the range of the acoustic guitar's frequency response.

Diabolik33
05-30-2013, 07:08 AM
Do you think that acoustic amp for home and small gig with DI outpout for PA in other case will be a good compromise?

Caleb_Elling
05-30-2013, 07:44 AM
That would definitely work. I prefer a dedicated DI so that I don't have to take my amp everywhere. A DI out from an amp will give you a good signal to the board, I just prefer the sound that I get from my Venue DI. It's really just a matter of taste at that point. Although the signal from the amp will always sound less "full" as it will through the PA.

Diabolik33
05-31-2013, 02:17 AM
thank's for your answer.
The best will be to have a good acoustic amp and a para or venue Di....
I have to test different acoustic amp whith lyric...anyone does it?