View Full Version : Lyric install: low signal strength
06-09-2013, 02:40 PM
I installed a Lyric last week in my Taylor. Previously I had an active K&K Pure Mini... so I removed the K&K preamp and simply wired the passive K&K to the ring tabs on the Lyric. Then I use my Fishman Artist to mix the two signals.
For the most part it sounds good. But the thing that bothers me is that I have to gain up the Lyric excessively. When comparing the two pickups, I have to gain the Lyric to 3 o'clock and the passive K&K to 9 o'clock to get relatively equal sound. Even if I unplug the K&K, the signal strength on the Lyric seems low (with the on board volume at 100%). Is this normal? I had a new battery. As I turn the amp up past noon, I start to notice some hiss... not terrible, but definitely audible.
I tried putting a Para DI after the Lyric and before the Fishman Artist to boost the signal, thinking the Artist may be the noisy part. Gaining up on the Para DI allows me to not use as much gain on the Artist, but I still encounter similar hiss noise at higher gains. This suggests that the lyric is the noise source at higher gains and not the Artist.
Can anyone confirm this to be normal... or offer suggestions.
06-10-2013, 08:55 AM
Where is your Lyric's built-in volume set?
06-10-2013, 10:01 AM
Built in volume? You mean other than the Remote Volume wheel that is on the sound hole? That one is set to full on. If there is another volume somewhere, I don't know where that is. Is it in the end pin? Please explain.
06-10-2013, 10:33 AM
I was referring to the Remote Volume, which I just noticed that you already mentioned being at 100%...sorry.
The Lyric is an active system, but it does have a lower output in comparison to some other pickups. Using the Para DI should give you more than enough gain for any live or studio setup though.
If you are getting a hiss from the system, you might try running the Lyric through the Para DI, into another amp or PA system, just as a test. If the hiss remains, try lowering the "presence" control on the Lyric remote.
06-10-2013, 10:40 AM
OK, thanks for confirming the lower output. Good suggestions about the presence control, I think it's at 50% now. If I back that off that should reduce the noise. I wonder what frequency the presence control is at. Could I add in more presence using the Para DI?
06-10-2013, 11:07 AM
The Presence on the Lyric isn't really a traditional EQ control. It's more of a shelving EQ rather than a peaking EQ like you would have on an amp. So if you reduce it too much on the Lyric, it will be much more difficult to bring back from an external EQ.
There should be a good balance from the Lyric control and the Para DI though.
06-10-2013, 01:39 PM
Ah... a shelving EQ. That explains why it gets so noisy when the presence is up higher. Any ideas what frequency that is at?
06-10-2013, 02:39 PM
The presence control effects sound from about 20kHz, down to about 2-5kHz.
So like I said before, cutting too much presence on the Lyric remote can make the EQ on the Para DI almost useless. It is worth tweaking though. Even a small adjustment on the Lyric control can make a big difference.
06-11-2013, 07:17 PM
I spent a few hours with my Lyric + K&K -> Fishman Artist tonight. I tried a lot of different configs: using a ParaDI before the amp and also in the FX Loop. But the best results were to not use the Para DI at all. I'm not sure why, but it just didn't help like I thought it should. In the FX Loop, I had the gain all the way down and I could get it close to sounding good, but not quite. Using the ParaDI as an EQ seems to color the sound in a way I don't understand even with everything at 12 o'clock.
The best results were turning the Lyric presence all the way up, then using the shelving high EQ (15k) on the Artist to cut the noise out, turned it down to about 9 o'clock. It still had that mic presence, but not the noise way up there.
FWIW, I don't think it's the amp. When I just use the K&K by itself, there is no hiss noise... of course it doesn't have that mic presence either. I think the two sound great together. Playing with one or the other is decent, but both together just work well. The lyric lacks a certain low end punch that the K&K has in spades.
06-11-2013, 07:25 PM
I edited the above post to say 15k instead of 10k. Nothing up there but noise.
06-12-2013, 08:46 AM
The Lyric usually has a very low noise level, even with the presence all the way up. .
If you ever want to send it in for warranty repair or replacement, let me know. If you got it to work, that's great. It doesn't sound to me like everything is working the way that it should though.
06-12-2013, 09:30 AM
Thanks Caleb, I'll keep that in mind.
My most recent theory on this is that the Lyric isn't necessarily noisy. But I'm gaining it up to 3 o'clock and the volume to 3 o'clock on the Artist... maybe the Artist gets a bit noisy up there. Conversely, the K&K isn't noisy at all... but then the gain is set at 9 o'clock, I wouldn't expect it to be. I think it gets back to the original issue: the Lyric signal strength seems low compared to a handful of other pickups I've ran through the Artist.
I have been thinking about getting another Lyric for a different guitar... they're on sale at Shoreline right now (15% off, coupon code springpickups). If I did that, I could swap out the lyric I have now with the new one and see if there is any difference. If there is, then I could send it in. At least then I wouldn't be without my guitar (with pickup) for more than few hours. I've read on AGF that others have had warrantee issues, some have suggested there are manufacturing inconsistencies in the electronics.
06-12-2013, 09:53 AM
We have a lot of tests that we implement for every aspect of the Lyric components. However, as with every type of acoustic pickup, there are a lot of variables in the instrument. So we are trying to calibrate for a "universally natural" sound, while keeping our components as consistent as possible.
If you end up trying another Lyric in that guitar, I would be very interested in the results.
06-12-2013, 11:55 AM
Is there any calibration that the end user can do? Any way I could gain it up some?
06-12-2013, 01:13 PM
No, the preamp is very specifically tuned to achieve the highest signal to noise ratio. Because of this, the noise that you are hearing is what strikes me as odd.
06-12-2013, 07:44 PM
I just installed my new Lyric into my Taylor Dn3 today (BTW, thank you Taylor for shipping your instruments with an endpen hole with a wide enough width that requires no reaming).
This may seem like a bit of silly advice, but i thought I would pass it on.
The endpin jack is a really tight fit. When I made sure it was all the way snug in, I had no problen with volume.
I am running straight through a Laney L65D acoustic amp. all controls flat.
Sounds like the Taylor unplugged, gain at about 4 and volume no more than five can fill a large room. I turned it up to eight and still no buzz or distortion, without usinf feedback or pad.
Love the Lyric (and the Laney, and the Taylor.
02-09-2014, 08:59 AM
I just installed a Lyric in a Taylor 714 yesterday and I am very disappointed with the low end and output level as well. I've been using an iMix with Taylor 414 for several years and the iMix works great for my finger style playing.. I understand that the iMix and Lyric are completely different technologies but, I definitely have buyers remorse after buying the Lyric and being able to compare the two. The 714 is an older (2005) that sounds great unplugged so I thought it would be a good candidate for a microphone pickup system. I looked long and hard at both the Anthem and the Lyric however, I wish I would have either went with the Anthem or another iMix for my 714. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can get that great sounding bottom end and gain in my situation? I was thinking about the Para DI but, it doesn't sound like rschultz had any luck with that combination.
Anyone have any suggestions? I'm about to ready to resign to the fact that I threw $200 out the window. The Lyric has no punch whatsoever. I've tweaked the presence control with numerous combinations and amplifications combo's and it is definitely the pickup. I would say that this pickup is definitely not a finger style players pickup. I'm open to any suggestions. Thanks,
02-09-2014, 01:02 PM
Para DI should help, I just like the venue better. The Lyric is a great pickup but is weak in the low end. I like to pair mine with a K&K Pure Mini. The other thing about the Lyric is that adjusting the presence is important... it can get really harsh if the presence is too much.
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